| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11] > | Allow site members/users to rate each job posting Thread poster: Robert Forstag
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Sign me up. I can't remember the last time I could be bothered to bid.
| | | | Hilary Bruce 
United Kingdom
Local time: 17:32
Italian to English
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| Proz.com would benefit too. | Oct 16, 2009 |
I fully agree that some sort of action should be taken to improve the rates offered in job postings on Proz.com. I have been a non-paying member for some time now and although I have considered become a paying member, I have decided against it as the only real advantage that I can see in doing this would be to have access to job postings that are frequently only open to paying members. The fact is that most of the job postings on Proz.com for my language pair (IT-EN) seem to have alarmingly low ... See more I fully agree that some sort of action should be taken to improve the rates offered in job postings on Proz.com. I have been a non-paying member for some time now and although I have considered become a paying member, I have decided against it as the only real advantage that I can see in doing this would be to have access to job postings that are frequently only open to paying members. The fact is that most of the job postings on Proz.com for my language pair (IT-EN) seem to have alarmingly low rates and so I can't see the benefit. As a non-paying member, I can still see a single BB entry when I need to and I can still use the site for networking, powwows, kudoz, etc. Perhaps if the job postings improved, more non-paying members would be encouraged to become paying members, so I think that Proz.com could definitely benefit from improving this aspect.
I quite like the idea of a graph indicating how the rate compares to average rates, although I'm a little uncertain as to how the average rates could be defined. I don't think that a simple like/dislike button would work because, as pointed out by others, whether you like a job/rate or not depends on many factors and what is a good rate for some is insulting for others. Perhaps if those that were assigned the job were given the chance, once the job was completed, to indicate the rate that they were actually paid for the job, within given ranges obviously, it could help identify those outsourcers who don't stick to the conditions stated in the original job posting (another worrying practice pointed out by Beatriz that I was not aware of). ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Interesting idea... | Oct 16, 2009 |
Eleftherios Kritikakis wrote:
I have an alternative idea: Just enhance the already existing Blue Board and keep enhancing it with new features until it satisfies most demands. Just add another option in the blue board "Indicate the price range of this agency" and give options "2-4 cents", "5-7 cents", etc etc.
Much easier and more effective.
Especially when those paid less see that there are people paid more than them working for the same agency. This can, of course, be quite reasonable and justifiable, but imagine the reactions in some quarters....!
| | | | MikeGarcia
Spain
Local time: 18:32
English to Spanish
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In memoriam | I ABSOLUTELY AGREE WITH ROBERT!!! | Oct 16, 2009 |
Yes, I think Robert's original suggestions (meaning the ones in the first posting) are totally coincident with my points of view. I work in the ENG/SPA, FR/SPA and SPA/ENG pairs (this last one only in my specialties, finance, banking and legal jobs) and, most frankly, I almost do not answer the Proz postings, with some few exceptions, for the simple reason that, if I decided to prostitute myself for a cheap price in order to pay for my living expenses, I would directly go out and walk the street... See more Yes, I think Robert's original suggestions (meaning the ones in the first posting) are totally coincident with my points of view. I work in the ENG/SPA, FR/SPA and SPA/ENG pairs (this last one only in my specialties, finance, banking and legal jobs) and, most frankly, I almost do not answer the Proz postings, with some few exceptions, for the simple reason that, if I decided to prostitute myself for a cheap price in order to pay for my living expenses, I would directly go out and walk the streets.....
Honni soit qui mal y pense.
Miguel García Uriburu de Wardener (better known in Proz as MikeGarcía). ▲ Collapse
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| WONDERFUL INITIATIVE | Oct 16, 2009 |
I do perfectly agree !!!
bossino
| | | | paola zanetti
Italy
Local time: 18:32
Member (2008)
Italian to English
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| I support Robert's proposal | Oct 16, 2009 |
and thanks to Alessandra who let me know about it
| | | | Lianne Wilson
United Kingdom
Local time: 17:32
Japanese to English
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| Agree with Robert! | Oct 16, 2009 |
I definitely think there should be more feedback regarding agency rates on ProZ. We're all thinking these things, why not say them?
Great ides!
To Eleftherios:
Eleftherios Kritikakis wrote:
It is "free within certain limits" usually set by large central banks or large associations/lobbies/cartels. If you are a Bank, you can't give an interest of 10% on deposits in the U.S. (you will bankrupt your bank), and you can't charge 30% interest on loans (nobody will buy them). So, the Central Bank, as well as the market, do set limits.
On a global scale, prices of gasoline differ a lot. But on a local scale, not that much. There are limits set by the market itself and by people (associations, etc.), and other factors.
Sorry, but I don't think you know what 'free market' actually means. You say that it can't be a free market because there are limits set by the market, the clients and the suppliers, etc., well that is perfectly okay in a free market system. In fact, that is basically what 'free market' means, that the only restrictions are set by the market itself. Free market just means that there is no governmental economic interverntion (except for legal issues such as fraud, etc.).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_market
Eleftherios Kritikakis wrote:
Today's young generation is used to spend their days and nights in front of glowing monitors, so they don't mind that much. If you don't send them a file to translate, they will still spend the day on the computer, reading blogs. This is a low price factor as well ("what do I have to lose, if I would spend the day on the computer anyway?").
I have to disagree. The 'young generation' don't just mindlessly stare at screens not caring if they are playing or working, that would be ridiculous. The very idea that young people will translate (i.e. work) for very little money simply because otherwise they'd only be on the computer anyway is daft. We still have hobbies, you know. And I at least don't find something enjoyable just because it's online. After all, that's how I pay my council tax
I apologise if my reaction here is a little strong, I just get really irritated by the assumption that young people can basically be treated badly in work because they don't do anything 'useful' with their free time and spend all of it watching 'glowing monitors'.
Eleftherios Kritikakis wrote:
As a sidenote, nobody understands fully the principles of the free market (if they did, we would have no crisis ever).
That's like saying that because I understand how a car works, it will never break down...
| | | | Fabio Descalzi
Uruguay
Local time: 14:32
Member (2004)
German to Spanish
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My full support to this initiative.
Fabio
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Vito Smolej
Germany
Local time: 18:32
Member (2004)
English to Slovenian
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SITE LOCALIZER | Make sure we don't feed the trolls | Oct 16, 2009 |
I agree with a number of postings here. If the measure is meant to keep that crowd of trolls at bay, I am for it. I just would hate to see them get any attention they have not deserved in the first place.
Whether this measure gets implemented or not, I would encourage everybody to post on BB. This is our common firewall and it's our responsibility and common-sense chance to make it more impermeable by posting our experiences.
Regards
Vito
| | | | Hepburn
France
Local time: 18:32
English to French
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| What I had been hoping for | Oct 16, 2009 |
As I do not have the kind of practical mind which sees immediately a solution to a problem of that kind, I have been sighing and sighing and sending a few "bids" just to voice my low opinion of such offers, then stopped, because it looked too depressing to see the number of bids rising nevertheless.
A direct option on the bue board would be ideal and hopefully, effective.
Claudette
| | | | | I agree with Robert | Oct 16, 2009 |
Nothing to add. A wonderful idea.
Thank you very much, Robert!
Happy translating, dear colleagues
| | | | | I also agree | Oct 16, 2009 |
I support your idea...
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| Good idea, but... | Oct 16, 2009 |
Gudrun Wolfrath wrote:
Why not ban outsourcers that offer less than 0.08 €/word from this site? Members do not pay their fees to give such agencies a forum. The answer is very simple: Why 0.08 ?
For me personally, 0.08 is too low...
ProZ is not a German Website made for the German market, it is a worldwide site made for the worldwide market. I've read many translators reporting that 0.01 € was avery good rate in their country and that they would be happy if all their clients paid that rate.
Now to the point: thanks for your suggestion, Robert. I do agree with some of the objections brought by Charlie Bavington, Jeff Whittaker and Eleftherios Kritikakis. I don't think ProZ will implement it, because it will make them lose corporate clients and will make them gain nothing.
Good agencies, that pay rates above the average, mostly don't use the jobs system. They use the directory or other means to choose their translators. And they won't be willing to use the jobs systems just because they are highlighted as "good agencies", because it is not an advantage for them: being pointed as such will have only one consequence on their business, which is that they'll be overwhelmed with hundreds of unecessary applications, and no agency wants to experience that.
However, I think ProZ needs to do something in that direction, even if they consider it not economically attractive. Because -they may not know it- they have a very bad reputation among certain translators, and they should be willing to change that.
I think your second idea with the graph is more realistic, and it couls help beginners to make their decision as whether to bid on low rate jobs or not. But how would you calculate the average market price? That's what I'd be eager to know.
Thanks for the interesting topic anyway.
| | | | Edward Vreeburg
Netherlands
Local time: 18:32
Member (2008)
English to Dutch
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| With Eleftherios Kritikakis on this one | Oct 16, 2009 |
The current Blue Board should already give an indication of agency (and the jobs), simply have wonderful communication does not make it a 5 star agency, interesting projects, good deadlines, and timely payment are also part of it.
If you look at the Blue Board now and check some of the agencies for which you know they pay peanuts, you will still see a lot of '5's. Why ? because somebody thinks 0,04 usd is a great rate - and it might well be, ...somewhere...
What we can ... See more The current Blue Board should already give an indication of agency (and the jobs), simply have wonderful communication does not make it a 5 star agency, interesting projects, good deadlines, and timely payment are also part of it.
If you look at the Blue Board now and check some of the agencies for which you know they pay peanuts, you will still see a lot of '5's. Why ? because somebody thinks 0,04 usd is a great rate - and it might well be, ...somewhere...
What we can have is some additional ratings like the "Rates rating" (2-4, 4-6, 6-8,... ct) and also something like job posting completness when a client enters a job on Proz:
Subject matter / field, number of words, deadline, etc... so when they are entering a job they are gently reminded (Job posting 3/5 completed - 2 suggested details) so they could enter some more details for the job they have - since not all of us have a crytal ball...
Another one would be to include the country of origin in the alert the translator receives, so we simply don't have to bother anymore with countries that generally offer low rates.... ▲ Collapse
| | | | Gina W
United States
Local time: 13:32
Member (2003)
French to English
| Great post, Robert | Oct 16, 2009 |
So well put, very diplomatic!
And I support this idea as well. How to implement it? That's another story...:)
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