Pages in topic: < [1 2] | What would you advise me? Thread poster: Korana Lasić
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Eva Stoppa wrote:
I wonder what is the Point then of making translators sign tons of Agreements if no work is to come anyway.
I'm speculating here, but I think it's probably a sign of MBA disease. Management sets arbitrary targets, such as "We aim to sign up XXX translators in XX languages" by the end of this month.
Then if they meet the target, they can mark it down as a success, so as to demonstrate how competent and efficient they are, even while the agency isn't making any money.
Nowadays, success in management seems to consist in this: setting targets you can meet, even if they bear no relation to the success or otherwise of the company's ostensible business. Thus, for example, Boeing have devoted so much priority and industry to buyouts and mergers that they are no longer capable of manufacturing aeroplanes that can fly. | | | Eva Stoppa Germany Local time: 16:01 English to German + ... Looks very familiar | Aug 13, 2021 |
Philip Lees wrote:
Eva Stoppa wrote:
I wonder what is the Point then of making translators sign tons of Agreements if no work is to come anyway.
I'm speculating here, but I think it's probably a sign of MBA disease. Management sets arbitrary targets, such as "We aim to sign up XXX translators in XX languages" by the end of this month.
Then if they meet the target, they can mark it down as a success, so as to demonstrate how competent and efficient they are, even while the agency isn't making any money.
Nowadays, success in management seems to consist in this: setting targets you can meet, even if they bear no relation to the success or otherwise of the company's ostensible business. Thus, for example, Boeing have devoted so much priority and industry to buyouts and mergers that they are no longer capable of manufacturing aeroplanes that can fly.
...and those Snobs have been ridiculing other Systems which I won't mention the names of here who had five-year-plans to meet Targets. | | | Yes, that's what I'd usually do but this is more risk than I'm willing to take. | Aug 13, 2021 |
Adieu wrote:
See if they pay up or start nagging and whining.
Some agencies are scammy, but some penalty clauses surely exist solely because of the proliferation of ctrl-c-ctrl-v-submit-done MT bullsh!t artists and other clowns in our profession.
There has been no actual job yet, something Philip rightfully pointed out, and the contracts are micromanaging the freelancer and designed so the freelancer takes all the risk.
If anyone in the agency makes an error and I don't catch it before I even accept the work, they can not pay me. If I make even a minor mistake they can not pay me.
Adieu, mistakes will be made. I am an excellent, bilingual, very versatile translator, but I am not a miracle worker or infallible. If I make too many mistakes, an LSP can stop working with me, after they pay me for my time and work. Hiring a subpar translator is the risk they take. Just like I, as a freelancer, take certain risks working with a new agency. I also do not catch anything about the projects I accept from people at 8 PM my time, before I start actually working on them, which can be a couple of days later.
I understand that they aimed to protect themselves from bad translators but that must be done by offering reasonable rates, which they do, and vetting your translators with a small job, as you mentioned. Not by expecting the freelancer to take his or her own risks, the risk the agency is supposed to take and the risk the two parties should share, and all that before you even have any actual work for them.
I'd just rather not.
Thank you all for your input. I really do appreciate it.
[Edited at 2021-08-13 09:54 GMT] | | |
Philip Lees wrote:
In cases like this I tell the agency, politely, that it is not my policy to read and sign large amounts of documentation unless there is an actual job on the table.
If there is such a job, we can discuss price and other terms, and assuming we come to an agreement, at that point I'll deal with their other bureaucratic stuff.
But that second part has never happened to me so far.
Exactly, all this before any actual job was sent. Thank you. | |
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Bureaucracy wants what it wants. | Aug 13, 2021 |
Eva Stoppa wrote:
Tom in London wrote:
I wouldn't worry too much about signing these documents. They are written by the lawyers who work for the agency and have to justify their existence.
In my (quite long) experience, the more legal agreements these agencies ask you to sign, the less work they give you.
I wonder what is the point then of making translators sign tons of Agreements if no work is to come anyway.
I've signed some contracts with people very happy to have found me that haven't ever sent any work. The problem isn't not getting any work, it is getting work having signed a bad contract. | | | @Tom @Korana | Aug 13, 2021 |
Tom in London wrote:
I wouldn't worry too much about signing these documents. They are written by the lawyers who work for the agency and have to justify their existence.
In my (quite long) experience, the more legal agreements these agencies ask you to sign, the less work they give you.
Tom: I agree with what you indicate above but consider that it may not apply with the state the Korana describes. Their implication may need to be taken much more seriously.
Korana: It is not unusual to have to sign a contract and various undertakings when registering for work with an agency. However, if you are not at ease with what is being offered, the specific context making you all the more concerned, then do not sign with this agency.
EDIT: Do not be surprised that an agency asks such documents to be signed before any offer of work. it would be odd to sign a contract after having accepted to work for them.![](https://cfcdn.proz.com/images/bb/smiles/icon_wink.gif)
[Edited at 2021-08-13 10:33 GMT] | | | Yup. I misspoke | Aug 13, 2021 |
Nikki Scott-Despaigne wrote:
Tom in London wrote:
I wouldn't worry too much about signing these documents. They are written by the lawyers who work for the agency and have to justify their existence.
In my (quite long) experience, the more legal agreements these agencies ask you to sign, the less work they give you.
Tom: I agree with what you indicate above but consider that it may not apply with the state the Korana describes. Their implication may need to be taken much more seriously.
Korana: It is not unusual to have to sign a contract and various undertakings when registering for work with an agency. However, if you are not at ease with what is being offered, the specific context making you all the more concerned, then do not sign with this agency.
EDIT: Do not be surprised that an agency asks such documents to be signed before any offer of work. it would be odd to sign a contract after having accepted to work for them.
[Edited at 2021-08-13 10:33 GMT]
They don't have an actual job for me at this point. This is all just onboarding with a potential of a job. Thanks for your input, Nikkie, it's appreciated. | | | Adieu Ukrainian to English + ... CAN vs. WILL | Aug 13, 2021 |
Most of modern contract law isn't about what they ever really EXPECT to do much, but rather about leaving themselves a legal basis for being heavy-handed against specific malicious actors and making it difficult for said malicious actors to fight them over it
Korana Lasić wrote:
Adieu wrote:
See if they pay up or start nagging and whining.
Some agencies are scammy, but some penalty clauses surely exist solely because of the proliferation of ctrl-c-ctrl-v-submit-done MT bullsh!t artists and other clowns in our profession.
There has been no actual job yet, something Philip rightfully pointed out, and the contracts are micromanaging the freelancer and designed so the freelancer takes all the risk.
If anyone in the agency makes an error and I don't catch it before I even accept the work, they can not pay me. If I make even a minor mistake they can not pay me.
Adieu, mistakes will be made. I am an excellent, bilingual, very versatile translator, but I am not a miracle worker or infallible. If I make too many mistakes, an LSP can stop working with me, after they pay me for my time and work. Hiring a subpar translator is the risk they take. Just like I, as a freelancer, take certain risks working with a new agency. I also do not catch anything about the projects I accept from people at 8 PM my time, before I start actually working on them, which can be a couple of days later.
I understand that they aimed to protect themselves from bad translators but that must be done by offering reasonable rates, which they do, and vetting your translators with a small job, as you mentioned. Not by expecting the freelancer to take his or her own risks, the risk the agency is supposed to take and the risk the two parties should share, and all that before you even have any actual work for them.
I'd just rather not.
Thank you all for your input. I really do appreciate it. [Edited at 2021-08-13 09:54 GMT]
[Edited at 2021-08-13 17:17 GMT] | |
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Heinrich Pesch Finland Local time: 17:01 Member (2003) Finnish to German + ... Sign only if there is a job worth taking | Aug 15, 2021 |
Telle these people you will sign these papers the moment they give you a job that justifies these documents. NDA for birthday greetings: no thanks! | | | I am not exactly the CEO type | Aug 15, 2021 |
Heinrich Pesch wrote:
Telle these people you will sign these papers the moment they give you a job that justifies these documents. NDA for birthday greetings: no thanks!
According to my personality traits, I am more of a very good employee and a dream (house)wife and stay-at-home mum, raising three kids.
So having started freelancing I'm still learning to negotiate and be my own little CEO and CFO and CMO.
I've decided on the day I made the OP not to sign any more contracts on the mere potential of a job and to up my rate when the fuzzy grid will be applied. So, slowly but steadily I am coming into my own. | | | Daryo United Kingdom Local time: 15:01 Serbian to English + ... You seem to be forgetting | Aug 20, 2021 |
Ice Scream wrote:
Korana Lasić wrote:
maybe they don't really enforce any of these, but the point is they can.
Actually, it is highly unlikely they could enforce them. IANAL but they can't enforce anything unreasonable whatever you have agreed.
Unless you've caused massive problems and with demonstrable negligence, it will not be worth their time and money coming after you. And if you have, well then you deserve it!
You seem to be forgetting that they have in fact a very simple, very efficient and dirty cheap way of "enforcing" all and any of these silly "contractual obligations" - by just doing nothing.
By just jumping on any of this long list of pretexts for not paying at all!
It's rather the translator who would be hopelessly swimming upstream if they don't fancy paying on a whim.
[Edited at 2021-08-20 18:54 GMT] | | | Samuel Murray Netherlands Local time: 16:01 Member (2006) English to Afrikaans + ...
Korana Lasić wrote:
I've now received a total of three contracts to sign. The NDA, the vendor service agreement, a guide for freelancers, that, yes, needs to be signed as well and is basically another legal contract.
Read them, then cross out any sections that you disagree with, sign in the margin, and sign the agreement at the end. Then scan/convert it to PDF again, and send it back. If they disagree with you crossing out any sections, they'll tell you, and then you can discuss it with them.
So basically, if...well..."anything at all", they can not pay me up to 100% and/or impose penalties.
Perhaps what they mean is that their fuzzy match grid applies discounts to fuzzy match categories and that the discount for 100% matches is, well, 100% (i.e. they don't pay for 100% matches, and they pay a discounted rate for fuzzy matches). This is not abnormal. Or... are you sure they're talking about penalties for delivering work with mistakes in them? | |
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Samuel Murray wrote:
Korana Lasić wrote:
I've now received a total of three contracts to sign. The NDA, the vendor service agreement, a guide for freelancers, that, yes, needs to be signed as well and is basically another legal contract.
Read them, then cross out any sections that you disagree with, sign in the margin, and sign the agreement at the end. Then scan/convert it to PDF again, and send it back. If they disagree with you crossing out any sections, they'll tell you, and then you can discuss it with them.
So basically, if...well..."anything at all", they can not pay me up to 100% and/or impose penalties.
Perhaps what they mean is that their fuzzy match grid applies discounts to fuzzy match categories and that the discount for 100% matches is, well, 100% (i.e. they don't pay for 100% matches, and they pay a discounted rate for fuzzy matches). This is not abnormal. Or... are you sure they're talking about penalties for delivering work with mistakes in them?
And not just my mistakes. They can deduct up to 100% of my pay if I fail to spot the PMs mistakes before I accept the job. I cannot get the PM to correct their own mistakes unless I've spotted everything before I've accepted the job. I've long moved on from the agency. Just too many red flags in the three contracts they've sent to be signed. Thank you for wanting to help Samuel, I appreciate it. | | | Baran Keki Türkiye Local time: 17:01 Member English to Turkish | | Pages in topic: < [1 2] | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » What would you advise me? Anycount & Translation Office 3000 |
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