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How to respond to low rate job offer?
Thread poster: edith1
cendrine marrouat (X)
cendrine marrouat (X)
English to French
+ ...
Excellent feedback Jul 6, 2005

Pilar T. Bayle wrote:


I would suggest charging a professionally accepted rate (ask other translators in your language pair) and then hiring a reviser to look it over for you if you are feeling a little nervous because of your inexperience. So in the end, you get the same amount as if you charged 5 cents, but you have a high-quality product that the client will understandably be willing to pay a good price for.


If everybody who is just starting out as a translator had the presence of mind to ask regular (normal) rates and pay for an independent proofreading from their own pockets we would see:

1. Better translations overall
2. Regular rates, not just dumping rates
3. A little more self-confidence
4. Faster improvement of translating skills due to professional proofreading.

I also think that 5 cents is cheap, 3 cents is simply dismal.

Kind regards,

P.
www.pbayle.com[/quote]

A very good answer indeed! Thank you so much for such an obvious-but-not-that-obvious answer...

 
Bits P Ltd
Bits P Ltd
India
Local time: 02:46
French to English
+ ...
Rates - An Indian Company's perspective Jul 6, 2005

To begin with 0.03 Euros is too low. My friends here have suggested numerous ways to get experience and I suggest you get some before you actually get down to professional translating. Mara talked about doctors and if I may add, you certainly do not want an inexperienced doctor to operate on you all by himself. Sarcasm noted, though Indian companies are well-known for their "generous" offers and also their "excellent" business practices, you cannot label the whole lot as being such for a few (or... See more
To begin with 0.03 Euros is too low. My friends here have suggested numerous ways to get experience and I suggest you get some before you actually get down to professional translating. Mara talked about doctors and if I may add, you certainly do not want an inexperienced doctor to operate on you all by himself. Sarcasm noted, though Indian companies are well-known for their "generous" offers and also their "excellent" business practices, you cannot label the whole lot as being such for a few (or perhaps more) rotten ones.

Being one of India's largest Translation Companies, we have had numerous offers from our clients to translate from and into rare languages apart from the usual ones. For the Indian market, rare languages would mean anything apart from a few European and Asian languages. No doubt the cost of living is very low in India and no doubt then that the India client (who on a good number of occasions are multi-national companies that would have usually paid a much higher rate had they operated outside India) looks for rates to be comparable with this standard of living.

So though the rates that Indian Translation Companies offer would be justified by virtue of their local conditions, it has to make economic sense for translators outside India. No price is too low for the one willing to accept it. Afterall, nobody can force you to work at a price you do not want to accept! Our company, however, belong to that school of thought that suggests that in such case the rates have to be slightly on the higher side for us and slightly on the lower side for translators outside India (note the use of the word "slightly") and to compensate for that slightly lower rate we pay in 10 days flat and also bear the bank transfer charges.

Let us not forget that India and China are huge markets that multi-national companies are using to their benefit. This certainly implies the generation of a lot of translation projects. The strong software industry in India is another huge source of translation projects. We are successfully working with freelancers outside India, who are making better money at "slightly" lower rates being occupied most of the times as compared to what they would have earned at on-going rates in their country with no work in hand on some days.

Let me conclude by saying that rate is a very dynamic and personal issue. How much one charges and how high or low one goes is an individual decision. I have seen people quote up to US$0.30 per word for certain language pairs and get away without being labelled exorbitant. The ones wanting to work at a ridiculously low price should enjoy the same liberty. Finally, it is an open and free market!
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PRAKASH SHARMA
PRAKASH SHARMA  Identity Verified
India
Local time: 02:46
English to Hindi
+ ...
Edith must decide what is right for him himself. Jul 6, 2005

Bits P Ltd wrote:
Mara talked about doctors and if I may add, you certainly do not want an inexperienced doctor to operate on you all by himself. Sarcasm noted, though Indian companies are well-known for their "generous" offers and also their "excellent" business practices, you cannot label the whole lot as being such for a few (or perhaps more) rotten ones.
No doubt the cost of living is very low in India and no doubt then that the India client (who on a good number of occasions are multi-national companies that would have usually paid a much higher rate had they operated outside India) looks for rates to be comparable with this standard of living.
No price is too low for the one willing to accept it. Afterall, nobody can force you to work at a price you do not want to accept!
To compensate for that slightly lower rate we pay in 10 days flat and also bear the bank transfer charges.
Let us not forget that India and China are huge markets that multi-national companies are using to their benefit.
The strong software industry in India is another huge source of translation projects. We are successfully working with freelancers outside India, who are making better money at "slightly" lower rates being occupied most of the times as compared to what they would have earned at on-going rates in their country with no work in hand on some days.
Let me conclude by saying that rate is a very dynamic and personal issue.
I have seen people quote up to US$0.30 per word for certain language pairs and get away without being labelled exorbitant. The ones wanting to work at a ridiculously low price should enjoy the same liberty. Finally, it is an open and free market!


On one hand, I would like to suggest Mr. Edith that you've to decide yourself at which rates you'd begin. If you can work on that rate, just note that next time, if same company offers you another job, and you are free, then again, you can accept. But, after some jobs, you'd tell them that your minimum rates are this much, and you can't work below that.

Why to blame only Indian agencies on quoting low? I've got no. of job offers which were lower than those of Indians. Personally saying, I'd to decline such jobs. From among them, few were from U.K., U.S.A. even? So, you can't blame to Indian agencies only.

As far as I know, among Indian agencies, some of them are really prompt in sending payments and I admire this habit of themselves. I work to my full capacity for such outsourcers whether Indian or from any part of the world. Because I love prompt payments. I love India and Indians, that is also one of the reason that I offer much low rate to Indians in comparison to that of U.K. or U.S.A. for the only reason, that they are INDIANS. From among themselves, many are frauds and cheats as well, who show you so and so excuses for non-payment. But, those, who are genuine, are as better agencies and outsourcers as the others are. I've no. of agencies and outsourcers with whom I working as a Freelance Translator in Nepali and Hindi languages regularly from 4-5 years. And they seems to be lot smarter than outsiders sometime, when they ask for p/r and editing as well for other jobs sometimes. On one hand, they pay the translator and and then to me also as a proofreader. Many a times, few outsourcers from outside world don't show such a smartness.

But pointing out Indian agency in this matter is really unacceptable, when they are offering the lowest possible rates and offering the excellent jobs as well to their outsourcers. So, no harm in working with Indian agencies offering low rates, if they are genuine and pay you out promptly.

Only one thing to remember, look at your schedule, if you are too much busy in some other urgent work, then politely deny the job and leave the agency to find some other translator for a while. Once you've done your job smartly, they will surely call you again.

Good day to you all!

Warm Regards!
PRAKASH SHARMA
FREELANCE TRANSLATOR OF NEPALI, HINDI, SANSKRIT AND ENGLISH TO FOUR OF THE SAME
+977 56 530738


 
Pilar T. Bayle (X)
Pilar T. Bayle (X)  Identity Verified
Local time: 22:16
English to Spanish
+ ...
Accepting low rates Jul 6, 2005


PRAKAASH wrote:
So, no harm in working with Indian agencies offering low rates, if they are genuine and pay you out promptly.


There is no problem whatsoever in working at low rates. The problem of accepting low rates is that Europe is far more expensive than India. When any agency anywhere in the world wants to find a genuine/native translator who lives in the country where the target language is spoken (becoming a more frequent requirement nowadays), the agency must be prepared to meet standard market rates for that country.

I live in Spain, one of the cheapest countries in the EU (or so they say), in which I have to pay 240 euros monthly just to have my medical expenses covered and be fiscally authorized to issue invoices. If I do translations at 3 cents a word, I need to translate 8,000 words just to meet that requirement. And we have not yet talked about those essentials such as phone, electricity, etc.

So, no, there is no problem in working at low rates... (What's the smiley for irony???)

Kind regards,

P.
www.pbayle.com


 
Lakshmi Iyer
Lakshmi Iyer  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 22:16
French to English
+ ...
Stick to your rates Jul 6, 2005

Edith,

As long as you send them apologetic e-mails telling them you're a beginner, you can't really blame them for trying to get you to work at their rates.

I would encourage you to stick to your mimimum rates and politely tell agencies you won't work for less.

Every time a newbie translator in a developed country accepts a job at low rates out of impatience and a desire to get working, it's a step backward for the global translation community's fight for d
... See more
Edith,

As long as you send them apologetic e-mails telling them you're a beginner, you can't really blame them for trying to get you to work at their rates.

I would encourage you to stick to your mimimum rates and politely tell agencies you won't work for less.

Every time a newbie translator in a developed country accepts a job at low rates out of impatience and a desire to get working, it's a step backward for the global translation community's fight for decent rates. Accepting low rates to build up experience is a very easy trap to fall into, but I do think you will regret it in the long run. Hang in there; keep working on sending out CVs to agencies with reasonable rates and good BB ratings.

And, most of all, believe in yourself. If you are convinced of your abilities as a translator (and I'm sure you wouldn't, in all conscience, be starting out as a translator otherwise), you will find agencies willing to pay you what you're worth, not the rate that - for whatever reason - it is convenient for them to pay.

All the best,

Kaveri
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df49f (X)
df49f (X)
France
Local time: 22:16
decline decline decline Jul 7, 2005

Konstantin Kisin wrote:

As most people will tell you, raising your rates (especially from such low levels) is close to impossible once you have agreed to work for a certain rate with a certain client. Indian companies are well-known for their "generous" offers and also their "excellent" business practices. Decline, decline, decline. If you want experience, consider translating for charities.


They'll tell you that it's "just for this time" and that, later on they'll increase the rate for those (gullible) translators who will accept the low rate...!
Perfect example: a job offered yesterday by a Florida agency (with a French lady's name - check it out: German to English, now closed): "16000 words @ 0,04 US$ - future jobs will be more".... BS!! same agency recently offered 8000 legal urgent job for 0,04 also (that's US$ not € or £, and that's Florida, not India...), although she (how generous of her!)"was prepared to raise to 0,05" - that's her rate and you'll never ever get more out of her... and you're even more unlikely to ever get more from an Indian agency - Don't work for those agencies if you don't live in a "low-cost" country. It's bad for the translators' community as a whole and bad for your own business and image: if you're a good translator, you end up cutting your own throat by accepting ridiculously low rates (as explained by many others in this thread).
regards - dominique


 
François Rossi
François Rossi  Identity Verified
Local time: 21:16
English to French
+ ...
no resources = no low rates Jul 7, 2005

I don't even bother wasting my time with a reply.

If we all say no to such rates, then the agencies will have to consider whether to take certain jobs or not.

Suppose a company in India accepts a job from a European company that involves two European languages. They'll have to ask themselves if they can find the resources to deal with the project. And if this Indian company accepts the job, then I refuse to be the one subsidising the European company. Why should I enabl
... See more
I don't even bother wasting my time with a reply.

If we all say no to such rates, then the agencies will have to consider whether to take certain jobs or not.

Suppose a company in India accepts a job from a European company that involves two European languages. They'll have to ask themselves if they can find the resources to deal with the project. And if this Indian company accepts the job, then I refuse to be the one subsidising the European company. Why should I enable that European company to make savings off my own back ?

So I keep refusing to work for companies in India, China, etc... hoping that, if they cannot find the resources, they will not take on jobs they cannot deal with, and that European/US companies will stop asking them to take on jobs which are poorly paid compared with our national standards.

Finally, there is ENOUGH WORK around so you don't have to accept working for peanuts.


[Edited at 2005-07-07 15:48]
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df49f (X)
df49f (X)
France
Local time: 22:16
out-out-out-sourcing Jul 7, 2005

Some agencies (at least in France - don't know about other countries) who charge their clients 1-1,5€ will outsource the job to Indian (or Mexican or Romanian or Bulgarian or Russian or....) agencies for 0,10-0,20€, who in turn will outsource the job for 2, 3 or 4 cents if you're lucky translator at the end of the chain... This is a nasty game, and we should not accept to play a part in it, particularly if we live in EU countries.
Your 5 euro-cents are already much too low for the EU a
... See more
Some agencies (at least in France - don't know about other countries) who charge their clients 1-1,5€ will outsource the job to Indian (or Mexican or Romanian or Bulgarian or Russian or....) agencies for 0,10-0,20€, who in turn will outsource the job for 2, 3 or 4 cents if you're lucky translator at the end of the chain... This is a nasty game, and we should not accept to play a part in it, particularly if we live in EU countries.
Your 5 euro-cents are already much too low for the EU and is regarding as dumping prices. Either you're a good translator (beginner or not) and you should expect and demand more than 0,5€, or you're not and then you should consider finding a different career.
best regards - df
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Marc P (X)
Marc P (X)  Identity Verified
Local time: 22:16
German to English
+ ...
How to respond to low rate job offer? Jul 7, 2005

df49f wrote:

Some agencies (...) who charge their clients 1-1,5€ will outsource the job to Indian (or Mexican or Romanian or Bulgarian or Russian or....) agencies for 0,10-0,20€, who in turn...


This is not really the problem. If an agency is willing to pay me a reasonable rate (for the sake of argument, €0.15/word), I don't personally care whether they are selling my work on for €0.16, €0.20 or €1.50.

The real problem is that some agencies subscribe to a price-driven marketing model because they are unable to attract business any other way. They win orders by being the lowest bidder; they then seek translators to do the work, and are constrained by the price they themselves have offered. The euphemism for this is "budget".

By no means all agencies work like this. But working for such agencies is bad for two reasons. Firstly, it's a guaranteed way of not making a reasonable living, because although volumes may initially appear attractive, the price is a downward spiral. The pressure to increase turnover in order to compensate - or even to jut stay afloat - means that quality suffers and skills are not honed over the years, as they should be.

Alternatively, one can resign oneself to poverty (or to being supported by someone earning a "real" wage, as many translators evidently do) whilst attempting to maintain high standards. And this is the source of the second problem: to sell good work cheaply is to the detriment of good agencies, who are competing with the bucket-shops.

Marc


 
df49f (X)
df49f (X)
France
Local time: 22:16
out-out-out-sourcing Jul 7, 2005

MarcPrior wrote:

df49f wrote:

Some agencies (...) who charge their clients 1-1,5€ will outsource the job to Indian (or Mexican or Romanian or Bulgarian or Russian or....) agencies for 0,10-0,20€, who in turn...

This is not really the problem. If an agency is willing to pay me a reasonable rate (for the sake of argument, €0.15/word), I don't personally care whether they are selling my work on for €0.16, €0.20 or €1.50.

The real problem is that some agencies subscribe to a price-driven marketing model because they are unable to attract business any other way. They win orders by being the lowest bidder; they then seek translators to do the work, and are constrained by the price they themselves have offered. The euphemism for this is "budget".

Marc


absolutely right! I was overly optimistic with agency rates to their clients! but your point just goes to prove my theory even further!
And I also agree fully with the rest of your arguments.

If agencies don't want to pay more than 2/3/4/5 cents, then they should get what they deserve i.e. 2/3/4/5-cents worth of translation quality, and good translators should stay away from them. Why should we help them stay in business??
BTW, the job offer I was referring to earlier did get a total of 9 replies...(
df


 
hira
hira  Identity Verified
India
Local time: 02:46
Bengali to English
+ ...
Low rate job Jul 9, 2005

edithbeerdsen wrote:

I received a rate inquiry from a translating agency from India. Being a beginning translator, I told them my rate is 0.05 Euro/word. I told them too that I am a beginner and that my rates are low because of that.

They replied and asked whether I am willing to work for 0.03 Euro/word. Now, in principle I am not.
On the other hand, I am willing to do one or two small jobs at a rate of 0.03, to convince the agency of my abilities as a translator.

What to do? Are they trying to take advantage of my inexperience? Or is it normal for Indian companies to pay such low rates even to translators outside of India? (I imagine 0.03 Euro/word is a lot if you live in India!)
I would like to make it clear to them that 0.03 is really too low to accept for regular work, but that a small job at this rate is ok. Will that be an insult to them?


Dear Edithbeerdsen

George Bernard Shaw has written in one of his esseys: "There is no authourity of age but only authourity of knowledge". I do not believe that inexperience in a handicap and that for this reason alone you should quote low price. If you have adequate knowledge of the languages, thorough in the grammer and have kept abreast with the latest vocubulary and style of writting, you ought to quote the same price as an experienced translator. However you have to keep in mind that current market price also counts. If you lower your price unnecessarily the market price will also go down and it is not advisable.
I am also an Indian translator(language pair EnglishBengaliEnglish) and I do agree with you that there are elements that may take advantage of your inexperience(innocence?). Please do not compromise on this factor.
I wish you all the best and hope that you will do exectionally well in this line of business.


 
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