Feb 17, 2016 13:22
8 yrs ago
1 viewer *
Dutch term

Edel hout

Dutch to English Tech/Engineering Materials (Plastics, Ceramics, etc.) As used in exclusive cars
In a booklet about pre-war luxury cars, reference is made to the use of this type of wood for such things as dashboards. What is the correct English term?

Discussion

Michael Beijer Feb 18, 2016:
a very noble gesture, freek but I think I will have to politely decline your heartfelt offer

– Captain Noblewood
freekfluweel Feb 18, 2016:
Might I therefore politely nudge you towards... the reward for people who really earned it

http://tinyurl.com/h36726c
Barend van Zadelhoff Feb 18, 2016:
Zie ook... ...voor de aardigheid Google:

"edelhout" "dashboard"

"edel hout" "dashboard"

Let wel, dit lijkt in de meeste gevallen betrekking te hebben op moderne auto's.

En in vele gevallen gaat het om namaakedelhout.
Barend van Zadelhoff Feb 18, 2016:
If this is adopted from other languages... ...and 'noble wood' is out of the picture, then I think the connotation that 'noble' has in these other languages should be maintained in the translation.

So does it signify in these other languages, in this context, the context of woods and pre-war luxury cars...

- quality?
- preciousness?
- quality and preciousness?
- or what?

I will repeat:

"noble wood" "dashboard"

http://tinyurl.com/zwk5jov

"noble woods" site:uk
Michael Beijer Feb 18, 2016:
Might I therefore politely nudge you towards ... my answer: "premium-quality hardwood" / "premium hardwood" ;-)
Richard Purdom Feb 18, 2016:
Yes, 'noble' (nobre) is a much-abused word in Spanish/Portuguese, especially with anything concerning buildings and their materials.
Kitty Brussaard Feb 18, 2016:
French, Italian, Spanish... Many of the search results for noble woods appear to be from websites in English which are run by French, Italian or Spanish companies. Cf. French bois nobles, Italian legni nobli and Spanish maderas nobles.

Refer also to the following Kudoz questions in the Spanish to English language pair: http://www.proz.com/?sp=h&id=165677&keyword=madera and http://www.proz.com/kudoz/spanish_to_english/tech_engineerin... And more in particular:

madera noble >> fine hardwood

Explanation:
I've been a woodworker for 20 years. Normally this refers to a hardwood such as cherry, maple, walnut, etc.

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Note added at 2002-03-16 20:17:40 (GMT)
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Other possibilities: rare, precious, luxury wood.

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Note added at 2002-03-16 20:57:27 (GMT)
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Speaking as a cabinetmaker in the US, Germany and Mexico.
Richard Purdom Feb 18, 2016:
IMO most English people would say 'expensive wood', like 'precious metals', maybe that's the best option. 'Noble' sounds too much like a marketing term.
http://www.sears.ca/content/wood even describes cherry as 'valuable and expensive'!
Barend van Zadelhoff Feb 18, 2016:
The sound of noble woods :-) Classical

Also known as Spanish guitar, it's the most popular stringed instrument in Spain and most of the world. They are concert and studio guitars. Made with noble woods like ebony, German pine or cedar from Honduras or Canada. The guitars have wonderful balanced sound, a rounded and velvety sound.

http://www.burguet.com/eng/indexeng.html
Michael Beijer Feb 18, 2016:
OK, think I am convinced. Kind of. The only problem now is: how many of your readers will know what you mean if you use the term "noble wood"? Hmm. In that sense, sth like "fine wood", or "premium-quality wood", or "high-grade wood" might be better. However, these of course lack the specific reference to the fact that these edelhouten are pretty much all fancy hardwoods, with beautiful grains and depth.

How about sth like "a premium-quality hardwood" or "a high-grade hardwood". This is at least instantly recognisable to most readers.
Michael Beijer Feb 18, 2016:
"It has been both instructive and intriguing to investigate the various countryhouse
myths which surround mahogany and its use. From an early date
mahogany has been associated with a certain nationalistic pride; it has been
popularly invested with honorary Britishness, and placed second only to the
native oak in the hierarchy of noble woods.
Blackie called it 'the chief of
furniture woods' and described the tree as 'a most magnificent and splendid
object, compared with which the largest oak, the king of our forests, dwindles
into insignificance.' Such hyperboles, and the myths they generate, are indicative
of the degree to which mahogany has permeated the national psyche."

(The English Mahogany Trade 1700 -1793
A thesis submitted for the degree of Doctor of Philosophy by
Adam Bowett, Department of Furniture, Faculty of Design, Buckinghamshire College, Brunei University)
Michael Beijer Feb 18, 2016:
yes, the second page of site:uk : "noble woods" has some reliable looking refs
Barend van Zadelhoff Feb 18, 2016:
Ho, ho, ho Just check them systematically. :-)
Barend van Zadelhoff Feb 18, 2016:
What does noble metals sound like to you? :-)
Michael Beijer Feb 18, 2016:
@Barend: Yes, but you have to watch out, because a lot of those "noble woods" (site:uk)
... refer to actual forests, rather than a specific kind of wood.

And the term "noble" is often used in a special, lyrical manner, rather than that it refers to a specific kind of wood.
Michael Beijer Feb 18, 2016:
"massief edelhout" What exactly is the author referring to when he/she uses the term "massief edelhout" on this page:

http://pyhengeveld.wix.com/materialenboek1#!massief-edelhout...

"Massief Edelhout

Edelhout is een zorgvuldig geselecteerd hout dat gebruikt kan worden in de keuken. Die zowel hitte, vochtigheid en intensief gebruik kunnen weerstaan zonder te krimpen of uit te zetten. Omdat Edelhout aan al deze elementen moet voldoen heeft het een tijd gedroogt tot een vochtigheidspercentage van maar liefst 11 procent. Het hout zijn ruwgezaagde balken die daarna geschaafd zijn."

"Massief Edelhout is een natuurlijk materiaal. Iedere houtsoort heeft zijn eigen structuur en eigenschappen. "

"Massief Edelhouten keukenbladen dienen behandeld te worden om uitdroging, verkleuring en scheuren te voorkomen. Door olie en schuurpapier op de juiste manier te gebruiken is Massief Edelhout tijdloos en duurzaam. "

etc.
Barend van Zadelhoff Feb 18, 2016:
site:uk : "noble woods"

from the second page
Michael Beijer Feb 18, 2016:
puzzling term :)

Any British wood specialists lurking about? Phil? Richard? What do you think of when you hear the phrase "noble wood"?

Hmm, mahogany, oak, chestnut, ash ... are all hard woods. What other term covers them all?

types of hard/soft wood: http://www.onlinedesignteacher.com/furniture_design/furnitur... +m https://www.shodor.org/succeedhi/succeedhi/weightree/tableHa...
Michael Beijer Feb 18, 2016:
usage 3 "Oak - the exclusive choice

Oak is a noble wood with a naturally high content of various oils and salts, making it highly resistant to rot and mould.

STM MOGANO are windows and doors in oak
Oak is a beautiful raw material completely without unsightly cracks and knots. "(http://stmwindows.co.uk/hovedmenu/windows-doors/oak.aspx )
Michael Beijer Feb 18, 2016:
usage 2 "The furniture used for a living room will look and work brilliantly in oak. Regardless whether it's about a traditional coffee table or a modern book shelve, oak will grant that little further decoration is to be required. It can simply add style and elegance without much work, since oak stands as a noble wood by itself [whatever that means]. Thus, it makes for a good value for money both on the short-term, as well as on the long-term." (http://www.fortunewoods.co.uk/why-choose-oak-furniture/ )

"ASH FLOORING – THE NOBLE HARDWOOD

Ash is a broad leaf tree with a wood that is hard, tough and easy to bend. Qualities that make it excellent for parquet floors. With the ash's light colours, the parquet also gives the room that fresh Scandinavian feeling. (http://www.pergo.co.uk/en-GB/wooden-flooring/collections/ash... )"
Michael Beijer Feb 18, 2016:
usage: "Staining chestnut
Postby Tim Nott » Sun Mar 18, 2012 11:07 am

We've been asked to quote on some bookshelves - two occupying the entire wall of one room, floor to ceiling, with another wall going up to 80cm high. These should house about 2000 books. The guy wants a 'noble wood of the region' eg oak or chestnut - and stained dark.
We intend to try and dissuade him from dark stain as it would make the room oppressive and also be a b*stard to do (about 50 sqm of stain) and expensive.

If we can't convince him of the charm of unstained chestnut (oak would seem a waste when 90 percent covered in books) what does the panel reccomend that would be easy to apply on 2.4 x .3m boards and not hamper subsequent finishing. I dunno how rich the guy is but walnut might be a possibility stained with vandyke crystals.
We can (and will have to) finish them 'knocked down' as it's three storeys of spiral staircase to the room. "(http://www.woodworkuk.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=7025&v... )
Michael Beijer Feb 18, 2016:
noble fir: A tall fir tree, Abies procera, native to mountainous parts of western North America.

(http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/noble-f... )
Barend van Zadelhoff Feb 17, 2016:
I think it's weird... ...that it's weird. :-)

"dashboard" "noble wood"

http://tinyurl.com/znvl2ca
Michael Beijer Feb 17, 2016:
@Richard: Yup, I think the best option is either "high-grade" or "premium-quality". Fine wood might be OK, although something in me doesn't like the sound of it. Nobel is just plain weird, iyam.

Since it isn't clear to Dutch people exactly what kind of wood edelhout refers to (because, imo, the term doesn't refer to a specific number of different kinds), I think it is best to mirror this in English.
Richard Purdom Feb 17, 2016:
Would have been a lot of walnut, so not necessarily tropical or hard. 'High-grade' is best.
philgoddard Feb 17, 2016:
Yes, those are two more possibilities. I do a lot of stuff in this area, and its not an easy word to translate. You usually have to make an educated guess based on the context.
Michael Beijer Feb 17, 2016:
@Phil: You might be right.

Incidentally, I wonder if it should be written aan elkaar: edelhout?

"hardwood"? or even "tropical hardwood"?
philgoddard Feb 17, 2016:
As my reference also suggests, it can also mean real wood as opposed to veneer or even plastic.
philgoddard Feb 17, 2016:
It's sometimes used as a synonym (and euphemism) for "exotisch", ie wood from non-native species such as mahogany, which Nils has suggested. Andrew hasn't given the context, but I'd be willing to bet that the implication is that you don't find wood like this in cars today, because it's not acceptable to cut down rainforests. If you'll forgive a German reference: http://dict.leo.org/ende/index_de.html#/search=Edelholz&sear...
Michael Beijer Feb 17, 2016:
@Nils Yes, unless you know exactly what kind of wood was used, I think it would be much safer to stick with something general.
Nils De Jonghe Feb 17, 2016:
Premium-quality wood does look like one of the safer options here. It is widely used and encompasses more than just mahogany.
Michael Beijer Feb 17, 2016:
premium quality wood grain dash kits "Working from the Dodge line of pickups, Busse formalized the idea of building the interior of all Chrysler vehicles from the steering wheel out, an idea which, when you think about it, makes a tremendous amount of sense. Busse explains that the steering wheel is "the one piece that you hold all the time, so that's where we spend our money." The instrument panels and gauge clusters are almost as equally important because that is naturally where the eye flows and it is the opportunity to showcase the fact that Chrysler is an American marque. Gone are the materials that earned the 2007 Sebring the moniker "chalice of wretchedness," having been replaced with premium quality wood grain dash kits and leather-wrapped trims."

(http://www.rvinyl.com/Dash-Kits-Chrysler.html )
Michael Beijer Feb 17, 2016:
premium-quality wood "Interior: harmony and high quality
[…]
The shaping and the materials used evince a maximum of superior value. "Comfortable", "sporty", "refined" and "expertly crafted" are the words that most aptly express the interior of the CL. Valuable wood is dominant in the center console area and in the flowing trim lines of the door and rear compartments - on the CL 600 premium-quality wood is also used around the roof control unit, the rear air vent and the ashtray and cup holder cover in the rear. " (http://www.carenthusiast.com/ncar0210/merc_cl.htm )
Michael Beijer Feb 17, 2016:
hmm, can't remember where or when, but a very similar question was asked once, either here on Proz.com, or over at Tcafe.

just think of better way of saying "fancy wood" ;)

first-class
high(est)-quality
top-quality
high(est)-grade

etc.
freekfluweel Feb 17, 2016:
first-class pine/mahogany/walnut etc.

?

Proposed translations

+6
41 mins
Selected

Fine wood

Could be a good translation for this
Peer comment(s):

agree Lianne van de Ven : Fine wood used for dashboards in antique cars.
1 hr
agree philgoddard
6 hrs
agree Michael Beijer : Think I'm warming to fine wood.
7 hrs
agree Tina Vonhof (X)
8 hrs
agree Kitty Brussaard
10 hrs
agree Barend van Zadelhoff : If 'noble' is not possible, then, to my feeling, but what does it mean, this, among the answers posted, may best replace it.
22 hrs
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
42 mins

Mahogany

This could be a good translation, but it might not be 100% accurate. From what I can tell mahogany (or mahonie in Dutch) can be edel hout, but not all edel hout is mahogany. In any case, mahogany is frequently used for furniture and luxury items.
Peer comment(s):

neutral philgoddard : I think you're almost there. Mahogany is an example of edelhout, not a synonym.
36 mins
Yeah, I came to the same conclusion, which is why I'm preferring the "premium-quality wood" alternative right now.
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+1
44 mins

high-grade wood

just one of the many options

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Note added at 46 mins (2016-02-17 14:09:11 GMT)
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"premium wood" (also sounds nice)

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Note added at 52 mins (2016-02-17 14:15:55 GMT)
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last one: "premium-quality wood"

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Note added at 13 hrs (2016-02-18 02:58:12 GMT)
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maybe even better:

"a high-grade hardwood"

or

"a premium-quality hardwood" / "a premium hardwood"
Peer comment(s):

neutral Lianne van de Ven : I would actually use high-grade for grades within a type of wood, e.g. various grades of pine. Fine wood is the go imho.
1 hr
Hmm. All "high-grade" means is "of very good quality". Do you also disagree with "premium-quality wood" and/or "premium wood"?
agree Kitty Brussaard : With premium-quality hardwood or simply premium hardwood. A search result for 'fine woods/hardwoods such as' basically shows the same types of woods as a search result for 'premium/premium-quality woods/hardwoods such as'. See also D-box.
21 hrs
Thanks Kitty!
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Reference comments

1 hr
Reference:

noble wood

Whether carbon, chrome or noble wood elements as an addition to the factory wood trim or extensive individual interior features: almost everything is possible in Arden

http://www.arden.de/en/parts/jaguar/predecessor-models/xk8r/

It was intended that the small cottage adjoining the hut should be available for members with young families and the President hoped it would be well used. He turned then to Jim Cordingley who stood nearby, saying that he would present him with a piece of hut equipment and with a token of his office. A-Cordingley— (a well earned groan here) he asked him to accept a draining rack, fashioned in his own workshop — he held it aloft amid laughter and cheers—and built in oak, a noble wood.

http://tinyurl.com/zgfyk87

This noble wood species is also naturally impregnated with "Chinon", which protects it against rot. This modern low-maintenance furniture collection will make a great addition to any home.

http://designedforoutdoors.co.uk/patio-seating-patio-furnitu...

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Note added at 1 hr (2016-02-17 14:56:27 GMT)
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This 4 door Ford Thunderbird has the characteristic suicide doors and a vinyl roof with noble ornaments and very nice foldaway headlights. All of this creates a very nice optic. The beautiful yellow paint with noble pin striping details is in a very good condition, just like all of the chrome which is in a very good condition with a deep shine to it.

The 360 HP strong V8 engine runs very well and the gearbox shifts excellent. Equipped with power steering, power brakes, air conditioning, electric windows, electric adjustable seats and disk brakes it is very complete and luxurious equipped.

The interior with lots of gold colored accents is in a very good condition. The seats with comfortable armrest, the door panels, the carpet, the with noble wood equipped dashboard, and the headliner are all in a very good condition. The white wall tires with original Thunderbird hubcaps are in a very good condition.

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C605460

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Note added at 1 hr (2016-02-17 15:08:20 GMT)
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Impressive furniture in cherrywood design with high-quality surface refinement: The standard for the 640/6400 FRANKIA motorhomes is furniture with the modern, light Cherry Life surface. From the 680/6800 models upwards, furniture in the noble, dark Cherry Classic design creates a luxurious atmosphere. Of course, you can also choose this noble wood design as an option for all other FRANKIA motorhomes.

http://tinyurl.com/zxa8xvz

BMW 5 SERIES E60 M5 Noble-wood strip, I-panel right O/S MADEIRA

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/262134612426?clk_rvr_id=9836514036...

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Interior Three different types of noble wood: special Lightened Oak, American Nut and Chestnut

http://naviproyachts.com/catId=27/
Peer comments on this reference comment:

neutral Michael Beijer : I really wouldn't refer to the wood on the dash of a fancy car as "noble wood". doesn't sound right in English // one ref is German, the other two out of context / OK. Still sounds a bit odd to me, but then what do I really know about dashboards anyway ;)
3 mins
Some of the refs are just meant to show the term 'noble wood' is known in Anglo-Saxon world, like you have 'edel hout' in Dutch.
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11 hrs
Reference:

Refs

For those who were not at Pebble Beach, the LA Auto Show is an opportunity to get a first-hand look at the Cadillac Elmiraj. This huge concept car is impossible to miss and quite striking. (...)

It is difficult to know at this point what the future holds for the Cadilac Elmiraj. If it does one day get the production green light, it will likely serve as Cadillac’s flagship model, of that there is no doubt.
(...)
The interior is simple, but very luxurious. The center console is void of any frivolities but makes extensive use of noble wood while the seats feature a contemporary design, which is typical for a concept car. Nevertheless, they do seem very comfortable.

It has been a while since Cadillac offered a high-end luxury vehicle capable of taking on the best from Britain and Germany. The Elmiraj might just be that car.
http://www.autogo.ca/en/articles/33869/2015-cadillac-escalad...

General Motors promises that the new 2015 Cadillac Escalade will be much more luxurious than the previous model, of course, but will also prove to be an upgrade over the Tahoe, Yukon and Suburban models that were recently unveiled as well. Indeed, Cadillac wants to give buyers a reason to spend the additional money required to climb into an Escalade.

When sitting in the 2015 Cadillac Escalade, we can see that the designers did not skimp on the quality of materials used in the development of the interior. The dashboard receives real wood inlays that blend perfectly with the fine leather and chrome that dot the interior.
(...)
"The interior is a pure expression of design," said Cherry. "Premium materials in luxury refinement are fine woods, precision-cut metals and crystal. They've all been combined and balanced in harmony in the Cadillac Sixteen.

"The interior theme is evocative of the posh accommodations of 1930s-era Cadillacs, but with contemporary style. (...) The dash, door panels, and front and rear consoles are trimmed with walnut burl veneer inlays.
http://www.gizmag.com/go/1652/
Peer comments on this reference comment:

agree Michael Beijer : "Fine woods" sounds good, but no matter how many refs you or Barend find (by Germans of French-speaking Canadians), I think "noble wood" just sounds odd. / The first one does sound odd, but they both sound like they were written by content mill drones.
13 mins
No problem. Just wondering though if either of these two articles strikes you as written by a French-speaking Canadian, a German or you name it...
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